Thousands of Messianic Jews reside in Israel, perform Jewish ceremonies and serve in IDF.
Some 15,000 Messianic Jews currently live in Israel, but if you saw one on the street you would almost certainly fail to recognize any difference. They honor Jewish circumcision, bar-mitzvah, and wedding ceremonies, but believe Jesus is the messiah.
The small community of Yad Hashmona, near Jerusalem, is home to a number of Messianic-Jewish families. They believe in Jesus – or Yeshua, as they call him – and in the teachings of the New Testament as well as the old. They are Jews in every sense, but for the most part keep this side of their faith to themselves. When these families gather for the Shabbat meal, however, Jesus is the guest star at their table.
Around 350,000 Messianic Jews live in the US, and one would be just as hard-pressed to recognize them there as in Israel. Some are Orthodox, and dress as the haredim do, while others are traditional and wear a yarmulke or no religious symbol at all. They are for the most part Zionists, and see IDF service as a top priority. In the army they serve as pilots, commanders, and elite unit members, but usually make sure to keep their messianic beliefs under wraps.
Read the full story: on Ynetnews.com
My comment:
It is strange that the Orthodox Jewish community do not accept Messianic Jews.
Jesus the Messiah was the ultimate Jew, raised in a Torah observant family.
The large majority of Messianic Jews in Israel as committed Zionists, and serves as soldiers in the IDF.
To the radical opposite of Messianic Jews, many Orthodox Jews do neither submit to or support the state of Israel. Neither do they serve in the Israeli army, to protect the Jewish people.
Something to reflect on.
First published: 23.08.2012.
Written by Ivar
ivarfjeld.com 
Hi Ivar,
I posted a clip on my blog a while back of Jewish believers worshiping together and of a family that denied they were Christians, but believed in Jesus as their Messiah. To them, Christianity was false, but Messianic Judaism was fine because it was still Jewish. When you look at history and see how ‘Christians’ treated the Jews, including the reformers, I am not surprised they want nothing to do with ‘Christianity’.
Dear Sue
Shalom.
The problem we face is Christians not being willing to expose false-Christianity. This leaves non believers confused, and some quickly take a stand against “Christianity”. The most carefully perverted version of the teaching of Jesus, is found in Roman Catholicism. Its bad enough that hundreds of million Catholics have been deceived. But this spiritual catastrophe getting even worse by many protestant denominations returning to the Papacy in the last days.
Jesus was surely right. Only a few will be able to make it through the narrow gate.
Dear sueliz1,
Shalom.
Your statement about the way the Christians have mistreated the Jews is unfair, as you lump entire groups of Christians into one category and say they ALL have mistreated Jewish people.
In current times:
The more rooted America is in its Christianity, the better it was and the better it will be for the Jews of America — and of Israel.
http://www.jewishjournal.com/dennis_prager/article/why_has_america_treated_jews_so_well_20100824
The majority of the non-Jewish American people support and love Israel. And we pray for peace and protection of Israel.
ironically, most Jewish people in America are Democrats and the vast majority of them, endorse obama, an anti-Semite.
Part of this is the blame of the Roman-Catholic Church, who has dressed Jesus up in a toga, rather than in a genuine Tallith, and given him blue eyes (at least in some instances) let his hair grown out of proportions with the Torah, and the beard be well-groomed, also out of context with the Torah.
And then partly it is the blame of the Protestant Church who doesn’t understand that FIRST the gentiles must come in – and when the gentiles are inside, then the whole nation of Israel will be saved, as foretold tin Scripture. (That does not mean that no Jews will be saved, btw!)
Shalom Ivar, I first noticed your report on Norway Israel and the Jews. It is good to have support from Christians, those who follow the bible. However, I must point out, that to be a Jew who follows the laws of the bible, it is impossible to be a Messianic Jew. “000 years ago, the Jews refused to follow the man who today is called Jesus Christ. no self respecting Jew then, would be called by Roman name. Paul was rightly considired a traitor, when he called upon the romans to defend him. Unfortunately, many Christians love of the Jew is only to convert him. A practise that has gone on for 2000 years. Even at York,England, the Tower was set alight, with the vast majority commiting suicide rather than convert (Just like the zealots at Massada under Roman control). The few who decided to conver tunder promise of being left alive were actually murdered. Much like the Nazis, who still murdered those with some known Jewish ancestry. Much like those who converted during the Inquisition, they were never actually accepted as “Real Christans,” even to thisd day.
Real Christians have to ask themselves why Jews did not then recognise Jesus as the Messiah? Why name the “Good Samaritans?” The Samaritans after all, attempted to block the rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem. Why Judas was the traitor? Why, because it signified the Jew. Why blame the Sanhedrin? The Romans ruled Judea with an iron fist. They made the laws for which hundreds of thousands of Jews paid with their lives. The whole length of the holy land was covered with cricifixes, Jews paid for their belief.
2000 years ago, the Jews in the known world were very anxious about their precarious situation. Either one was a Jew, or a pagan. One set wanted to convert the pagans as real Jews, folloowing all the laws that God gave to mankind. The other set, wanted to convert the pagans to Jews, alowing thme to continue with many pagan festivals and religious practices.. It was the latter sect that became successful, and Christianity followed on. When the real Messiah comes, I am sure that he will be horrified to know the appalling things done in his name to his people, theJews.
The Christian Church started the real hate of the Jews in the middle east, which the pagans took up, with Islam following the scenario.
I have many Christian, and a few Hindu, Sikh and Moslem friends. The official churches, Eastern Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant still practice their hate towards the Jew. One only needs to look at the malicious reports regarding Israel and the Fakestinians. Why? Because to these ignorant savages, it was the eternal Jew who killed Jesus. Oh yes, even here in the UK, as a youngster, I have been called ChristKiller, where and how do I hide my horns and tail?
Some of your detractors believe they know about the so called history of holy land. May I suggest that anyone who wishes to quote from the bible, actually go out and purchase from the Jewish Publication Society of America the original bible called the “Tanakh.” Preferably with translation and commentary. There are too many mistakes in the many and various transalations. for example; the Reed Sea and not the Red Sea. Isiiah mentions a child will be born to a young woman (it does not mention, nor convey the title virgin), and it’s name will be called Emmanuel (God is with us)
Yes, the Children of Israel battled the Canaanites and found a tribe practising the sacrifice of babies, being thrown alive into the pit’s flames of the statue. The name of the place is called Gehenna, which is near to the capital Jerusalem. Hence the image of flames as a place of hell. The term Palestine was first used by Rome, as an insult to the Jews, whose enemy was the Philistine, who came from Crete and known for their use of irion as a weapoin of war.
Islam began it’s conquest and took over the holy land, from then on, it lost the name Philistine. During the Ottoman empiire, no Arabs, Christian or Muslim wanted to live in this backwater, where according to the Tanakh, the prophet’s words remained true, a place of desolation. It was the Jew who returned to the few who actually still lived there, and began to battle sickness, famine, etc to rebuild a new Jewish home. Your readers can try reading “Innocents Abroad” by Mark Twain.
After Britain’s conquest of the holy Land towards the end oif world War 1, they renamed the whole territory as Palestine. That is the whole of the West Bank (Judea and Shomron) and the East Bank). The Arabs from the surrounding areas, attracted by Jewish labour and money, and by the British too were basically known as Arabs. After the Arabs had been given their new countries, Britain promised the Jews a homeland in Palestine. The Balfour and San Remo Daclarations confirmed this. The Jew was the Palestinian until Israel was independent. Upon independence the surrounding states invaded the sole Jewish state with the British led, armed,trained Arab Jordanian Legion taking control of the West Bank. Two areas jutted into what was left, about 8-10 miles from the sea, which the surviving Jews were to be thrown into. Israel lost Jerusalem, the holy city of peace, including the 4 quarters, Jewish, Armenian, Christian and Muslim. All was to be regained during the 6 Day war in 1967. Jordan shelled Jerusalem and various places in Israel befiore Israel aactually retaliated. Jerusalem is holy to Jew. why to the christian? Because of it’s attachment to the Jewish people. why is al Quds holy to the Muslim? Jerusalem or its name today is not mentioned even once in the Kuran. It is holy because their temple settles on the remains of the Jewish temple and because in the Kuran, it mentions a place with no name to the west. Which is why, they turn their back to Jerusalem to face Mecca.
“Palestine” is a marketing plan by local Arabs, confirmed by the the Paedophilic murderer Yasser Arafat. Even they confirmed they were Jordanian. The west has been suckered into the greatest hoax of all time. This with the full co-operation and backing of the the world’s churches , governments and many charities. ie Red Cross, Oxfam, Save the children and of course the UN and present EU.
Please excuse the long list, however, I believe that many people who do decide to contribute to your excellent blog, need to do so from a position of knowledge and not ignorance Just before I finish, I would like to quote Sigmund Freud’s 70th birthday address in 1926 Vienna;
Only to my Jewish nature, did I owe the two qualities which had become indispensible to me on my hard road.
Because I was a Jew, I found myself free from many prejudices, which limited others in the use of their intellect. And being a Jew, I was prepared to enter opposition and to renounce agreement with the compact majority.
We, as Jews, don’t expect thanks for giving the laws to mankind and all the commandments. We don’t even expect gratitude. however, it surely is not too much to expect to be treated with respect as a people, with the riight to decide what they believe to be correct or best. Just like anyone else. Even the very limited Noahides Laws, the most basic are from the Jewish people and i quote.
Prohibition; Idolatory, murder, theft, sexual promiscuity, blasphemy, eat flesh from a living creature.
Requirement; Establish laws and courys to exercise judgement.
I apologise for the lenght, but not the content, which is truthful. As a Jew, and a a Zionist, I appreciate your valiant efforts to rid Norway and the world of Jew/Israel hatred. However, as I respect your religion, and Islam, both believing in the one God, I trust that I as a Jew can be respected, without having to continue the war from 2000 years ago to Hitler. Kill the Jew permanently or to convert as a Christian by that name or any other.
.
Dear Motti.
Shalom.
Thanks for a long comment. I will surely need some to time to go through and reflect on all the points in your message.
First an instant feedback:
You wrote:
. “000 years ago, the Jews refused to follow the man who today is called Jesus Christ. no self respecting Jew then, would be called by Roman name.
My comment:
It is not true that the “Jews” refused to follow Jesus, who’s Hebrew name is and Yeshua. All the first believers in Jesus were Jews. In every century, there were Jews believed that He is the promised Messiah.
Like there were many Jews who believed in Yeshua, there were gentiles who started to follow copies of “Jesus”. These copies can be recognized by their hate towards the Jewish people.
Motti, you have a lot of valid historical facts there, but you need to cut the hypocrisy. It was Jews who first persecuted Christians. I am not in any way defending what the corrupted church later did in persecuting Jews, but you have no excuse in that.
You are also very week on your understanding of scripture. The proper translation is virgin. But who do you think the prophet was talking about in Isaiah 53:5 ? This is Yeshua, your messiah, born a Jew from the line of David. Your ancestors rejected him and handed him over to the Gentile Romans to be crucified. That is why we are all guilty, whether Jew or Gentile. They continued this rejection, even hiding the truth by corrupting history in the Cedar Olam so as to hide the fact that Daniel’s prophecy pointed to him.
If you have the time and inclination to write all that above, you should take the time to check out what I said. Your people have suffered too much loss. Its time to embrace your savior.
philmayo7909, “it was Jews who first persecuted christians” — come on, do some historical research. The truth will surprise you. In every place where both Jews & arabs lived near each other, they lived peacably…UNTIL the “Christians” came along & accused the Jews of various awful thngs. (I refer to those who CLAIMED to be Christians. Their deeds declare they were not real followers of Jesus. But you can’t blame the non-“christians” for believing the label the “christians” put upon themselves.) After that, the arabs began to hate & persecute Jews! want a modern example? Jerusalem, 1933-1949. The Mufti (moslem leader) of Jerusalem was an admirer of Hitler. He incited arab hatred against the Jewish population. Just do a little reading about who cut off whose ears as trophies. It wasn’t Jews doing that! and it still isnt Jews who teach toddlers in Gaza to hate . As for corrupting scripture: manyJews believed Yeshua was the promised Messiah UNTIL the “Church” began its terrible Inquisition, pogroms, etc against Jews! In the face of such awful treatment, one rabbi, named Rashi, proposed that if the followers of Jesus treated Jews like this, then either Jesus wasn’t really Jewish (maybe the illigitimate son of Mary and a traveling Roman or Samaritan?) or else He wasn’t really the Messiah. This made sense to the beleaguered Jewish people. So…if you want Jews to accept Yeshua, you must love them AND teach properly. The Jews are correct in declaring that no real Messiah would ever ask them to depart from Torah. When Christians say “we’re free from the Law!!”, they’re teachng that Jesus is the promised Man of Lawlessness! the gentile “church” needs to repent of its arrogance (which Paul, a devout Pharaisee & rabbi, warned against). Yes, we all played a part in the death of Messiah. But EVEN IF the Jewish people were to never turn to Yeshua, still they would deserve what Motti requests: respect– the right to live as they wish in their own land– to LIVE, not die under a daily barrage of bombs that no other nation would be asked to tolerate.
Motti, shalom, may you live long & see your great-grandchildren flourishing. I agree with most points in your post. I do have a copy of the Tenakh, published by the Jewish Publication Society. I especially enjoy studying the Hebrew (which I am very poor at — I still barely know 2/3 of the aleph-bet). However I must remind you, my friend, that the lower levels of meaning MUST NOT EVER contradict the simplest (P’shat) level of meaning. No interpretation of Torah is valid which contradicts another level of interpretation of that same scripture. True? (if not please correct me. I mean that. Please. ) but to continue:
so, if true, note that the word in Hebrew in Yeshayahu is indeed the word properly translated as “young woman” and does indeed imply that the woman is married. And so this word is properly understood at the P’shat level to mean that the prophet Yeshayahu himself did indeed have relations with his own wife, to whom he was indeed married, & then she did conceive a son & named him as prophesied. (There is nothing in the passage in Yeshayahu, as far as I can see, that would require the prophet’s wife to be no longer a virgin at he time of the prophecy.) Now, I am still a beginner in the PaRDeS method, so am not certain if the refrence to Miriyam in the story of Yeshua, is at the Remez or the Drash level… but humor me, please; just consider this: Miriyam (“Mary”, to Westerners) was indeed a young woman of marriageable age, and she was indeed officially “married”. She was, technically, “betrothed”…a state that can only be dissolved by official divorce with a ‘get.’ True? so then, she is qualified to fulfill the prophecy. The story of her conception of Yeshua is not unbelievable, but is quite likely. The prophecy from Yeshayahu cannot contradict a fulfillment that Mattityahu pointed out. There is no contradiction. On one hand are claims that the word in Yeshayahu means “young [married {woman] of marriagable age} ” and not specifically “physical virgin”… and on the other hand are claims that Miriyam was physically a virgin, one who had never lain with a man. They are not mutually exclusive. They can be harmonised. I’m not sure I am doing a good job of explaining this but believe me, the prophecy is true and reliable & has been fulfilled in every detail, AND does not ever contradict itself. The G-d of Israel would not give a prophecy that was fulfilled in one level by a married woman who had already physically known her husband, & another level by a woman who was a physical virgin. There are implications at the Sod level that would no longer hold, if there was a contradiction between other levels. Thank you for your patience in reading & your tolerance as I attempt to replace my Western mindset with a Hebrew one. 🙂 Shalom.
Shilah, that was an awful lot of misused facts to counter an argument I never made. I am just as aware as you of the persecution of Jews by those that call themselves Christian but are not. But it is a favourite of people like Motti to point the finger at that persecution as good reason for rejecting Jesus Christ. And that is, as I said, Hypocritical, because it was the Jews who were the first to persecute Christians. Don’t be selective in your study of history. Even the Apostle Paul told us how he helped organise that persecution.
If you want guidance in understanding the scriptures I suggest you look to the many Christian Bible scholars, not someone who rejects Jesus Christ, and to whom the Holy Spirit does not reveal truth.
Shalom lakh Shilah,
I cannot fault your arguement and yes, thank you for your support. I really do have to question the attitude of Christians complaining that we Jews go on too much about Christian attitudes and behavioir to the Jewish people. Oh yes, we also complain too much about the Shoah, or Holocaust.. The Holocaust is just following an ancient teraduition of hate, fear and nevy of the Jewish people
I m not a Rabi, nor preacher and my own knowledge is far too little. Even at my age, I am still learning and continue to learn in time honoured Jewish tradition. Hebrew is not my first language, English is. However, I did study from the age of 8 tilll I was Bar Mitzvah’d at the age of 13. This meant every monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday evenings and Sunday mornings, with of course attending Shabbat services. Chritstians” knock on my door,to convert me, even after seeing the Mezzuzah on the doorpost. when they quote, I have corrected them by bringing the “original” bible with it’s translation and commentry, often by Christian Hebraists, the Vatican etc. They have questionned my bible in favour of their translated versions. It is they who wish to change meaning. and yes, very often some terms are difficult to understand. I do appreciate why Christians want to convert the Jew for the last 2000 years. That is to show above all that the Jews accept Jesus as Messiah. I am aware the various churches spent millions on just that, in the same manner of the Saudis who spend billions throught the world. To convert all to Islam and to hate Israel and the jews. so yes, Islam and Christianity have a common bond.
I really can’t be bothered to have to explain anything to PhilMayo, except to suggest that he does indeed read, study and absorb the Jewish Tanakh. Tav for torah, N for Neveeim or the phophets, and Khetuvim for the writings. Perhaps a study of Rabbi Hillel, bornin in Babylon appr 110bce and died in Jerusalem at 10 ce. He was a renowned Rabbi famous for a number of speeches. For example, he was told by a Roman centurian to stand on one leg and explain what it meant to be a Jew. His response was; “That which is hateful to you, do not do unto your fellow. That is the whole Torah, the rest is commentary. Go and learn.” Yes Shilah, the vast majority of people need to learn this. He was also known asfor another very famous expression; “If I am not for myself who will be for me? And when I am for myself, what am I? And if not now. When?”
Another one? And whoever destroys a soul it is considered as if he destroyed the whole world. And whoever saves a lifeit is considered he saved the entire world.” Perhaps those who wish and practise the conversion of only Jews to Jesus need to understand and carry out this edict.
Perhaps according to PhilMayo the meaning of hypocrisy has taken on a new meaning. He may wish to disagree with my point of view and that is his right. However, to disown facts is another matter.. Jews do not go on a crusade to convert anyone. It is very difficult, even according to the Liberal practise to become Jewish. however, once that person does so, no one is allowed to remind them of their former beliefs. The tragdey all those thousands of years ago is the wrong team won. Those who wanted the pagans to convert to Judaism according to the laws failed. for the obvious reason, it is easier to convert pagans when their own religious beliefs and traditions are allowed to continue and propser. One of which is human sacrifice. An abhorant act according to Jewish law and totally banned. That is why I state the wrong team won.
The sacrifice of Jews is surely just one good reason not to accept Jesus. Why would Jesus question God for betraying him? How can you kill God, who afterall is imnpotent and not a man?
Shilah, I still read a section of my bible each and every day trying to understand and carry out the laws and will ocntinue to do so until my last breath. May you and Ivar and all “Good” Christians live for “Meah isrim” or 120 years. This is in recognition of our real leader Moses (Moshe)
Shilah, my apologies for not answering your comments regarding the virgin birth. I begin by responding to Isaiah 7:14 and perhapsPhil hmself might wish to read this section, too. The relevant quotes starting from the beginning of the chapter; “And it came to passin the days of Azaz, the son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, king of Judah, that Rezin, king of Syria, and Pekah the son of Remaliah, king of Israel, went up towardsJerusalem to war against it. And it was told the house of David, saying, Syria is conferate with Ephraim. and his heart was moved, and the heart of his people…. Then said the Lord unto Isaiah, go forth now to meet Ahaz….say unto him, take heed and be quiet; fear not, nor be faint hearted for the two tails of of these smoking firebrands, for the fierce anger of Rezin with Syria, and of theson of Remaliah….Thus saith the Lord God, it shall not stand, nor shall it come to pass…Moreover, the Lord spoke again unto Ahaz, saying, Ask a sign of the Lord thy God…..But Ahaz said I wil not ask, neither will I tempt the Lord. and he said, Hear now O house of David, is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will you weary my God also.
Verse 14 There fore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign; Behold a young woman shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Emmanuel . This verse is the whole basis of the virgin birth theory. For that reason Jseus is now the Messiah,. who supposedly born to a virgin.
You need to look at the whole chapter to undertsand the meaning. The birth of the child Immanuel was to be the sign from God to Ahaz who lived 500 years before the Common Era. How can this sign be for something over 500 years later? These days, even modern Christian scholars and Christian Hebriasts admit that “proof” was based upon a mistranslation As you stated that v’sullah is the word for vigin. however in the book of Isaiah, the word almah is used which means a young woman, virginal or not. Jesus was never called Immanuel
This whole idea stems from Matthew in which it is written that his name shall be Jesus, as spoken by the prophet, a virginal birth and they shall call him Emmanuel. Again, why call him Jesus , or Hehoshua?
The early Christians made the theory of a virginal birth , the early Jews clearly rejected the idea of Jesus , as did the early gentiles. It was Paul who changed everything around. It was he that said that being a Christian it was no longer necessary to obey the Torah’s 613 (not just 10) commandments, which the Jews still observed. Paul introduced one of many pagan ideas and festivals into into early Christianity, one of which was the virgin birth, this appealed to Pagan Gentiles.
My aim is neither to criticise, nor condemn Christianity. However, during the centuries of Christian persecution, learned rabbis were brought before the Churches, Kings etc, and forced to argue their case for not recognising Jesus as the Messiah. They never ever lost their case. some did however lose their lives for their tenacity of arguement.
Sadly, these Messianic “Jews” are Christian in all but name. Jewish they are not and for sure their descendents will not be Jewish. The vast majority of these Messianic and Jews for Jesus have a very limited knowledge of their own religion and it’s laws and traditions. It is a sad loss to the Jewish people
what is most disgusting though is the Christian claim at how bad we are as a people and that Christian persecution is because of our rejection of Jesus. Unlike Christianity, any form of human sacrifice (and that is what we have been) is totally condemned.
I trust this might help you Shilah
Shalom Ivar,
Firstly, it was my lousy typing, of courseit should have read 2000 years. At thhe time of the Roman conquest, there were many rabbis and Jewish preachers who roamed the whole land, hoping for the tyranny of Rome to fall. Rome changed name of the country, indeed, even to mention Jerusalem by name was sufficient evidence to be condemned by crucifix, by hung and quartered. .
The rabbis and preachers who went about the land, did not call for a new religion, nor was he recognised aa the Messiah. None of the expectations of the Messiah according to ancient Jewish laws pertain to the coming of a “God” that was killed, nor has the world situation ever changed for the better. I do not see swords being made into plough shares, do you? Nor was there any mention of the Messiah having to return because he failed the first time.
Traditionally, it is also against Jewish tradition and laws to blaspheme, criticise the other two religions ie Christianity and Islam, for one reason only. The key word is one. One God and only one.
I do not wish to put Christianity down. However, I repeat 2000 years of hatred shown by all the churches, the World Council of Churches falls into this accusation, is a fact. Yes, we do state this very often, as these days we have all the churches supporting the Fakestinians in their war against the Zionist entity that is Israel. The only chuirch that openly supports (to the best of my knowledge, and I am open to correction here) is the Christian Embassy in Jerusalem. These are, if you like, the “Real Christian.” (In the UK, the Church of England has renewed it’s compliance with its anti Israel commitment and fails to recognise its own anti Jewish communicatoin, iincluding the infamous blood libels. The Vatican is pushing for any recognised holy Jewish possessions as now being Fakestinian). They do not only show us support, love and yes aid and compassion, too, they also do not preach to us about our mistakes. There care also many Christians who follow the teachings of Jewish Jesus (mainly based on Jewish laws), recognising him as a brilliant person, but not the Messiah.
I find it incredible that people with fixed ideas about the bible, profess to understand and know the exact meaning and commentry from Hebrew (and Aramaic in small areas of the Tanakh) into their language. Even after I had pointed out mistranslations, sometimes made intentially to support their claims of Jesus the Messiah, or poorly resourced mistakes.
Unfortuinately, many Jewish “believers” in Jesus ythe Messiah, or God or the Son of God, were forced to do so. That or be killed. Others, such as after Emancipation, gave up Judaism in the face of their own talents or otherwise being forced to take up only limited number of jobs. The guilds and bonds wre forbidden to the Jews, yes, just like the golf clubs. Just like the signs on windows I remember in London, “No Jews, Irish or Colours.”
Yes, I appreciate that people such as Phil become upset and make allegations because of their ignorant lack of knowledge and they complain that we remind the cHristian world of its deviance and hate towards us.. Too bad. I have known real hate from Christians and have never been confrontational. However, I will continue to fight oppression, even oif this means having to correct ppeple’s mistakes.
Motti, you quote only the facts of history that support your one sided views. I make no allegations. I merely try to strip away the excuses you hide behind.
The true church of Jesus Christ is not an institution, it is a group of people known in scripture as The Body of Christ. And we are in full support of Israel’s right to the Promised Land. In fact, it is my experience that true Christians can be discerned by their views on that issue.
As for Jewish Biblical scholarship. Well that has become an oxymoron. Your rabbis have spent the last two millennia developing ludicrous interpretations that defy plain logic.
Isaiah 7:14. “Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel”.
Allow me to indulge in a little linguistic foolishness. I will use what I understand to be your preferred interpretation of what this passage is actually saying:
“Behold, a woman who has had sexual relations with a man shall conceive, and bear a son”
Would you care to explain what “sign” the prophet was speaking of?
Was there something unusual about a woman becoming pregnant after sex?
Could the “sign”, be the never before occurrence of a woman giving birth?
Or perhaps no woman had ever given birth to a son before!
Professing themselves wise they became fools. Don’t allow yourself to be counted amongst them.
Phil, I am happy to note that your church has pro leanings to the Jewish state of Israel. Unfortunately, your church and similar other churches are in the minority, Protestand or Cathlic.
Do yuo not consider your own views are one sided? It is very sad indeed that you consider many learned rabbis ashaving devveloped ludicrous interpretations of our own bible. Your “learned” priests have failed entirely to convince the oxymoronic rabbis of their failure to translate or interpret correctly. Asd I mentioned above, too many, lost their lives in doing just that. At times the whole Jewish congregation depended upon the Rabbis arguements to defend them and continue to exist their lives in the ghettos.
You state your own linguistic foolishness, and I am unable to disagree with you. you have made your own version…. again. Sex has never come into it. That was the Christian’s answer ro the pagans.
The sign surely was of a young woman 500 years before the Common Era. You are very insulting to the very learned Rabbis who have spent their whole lives studying Toraah and Talmud. On what basis do you consider your own learning is above theirs?
I offered some arguemtns given by Rabbi Hillel, perhaps you should so the same. go and learn. You yourself are very ignnorant and I don’t like to argue or choose titles about other people. I understand that Jesus said not offering pearl to the swines. This actually originated in the book of Proverbs in which it states; ” Criticise the wise and he will love you. criticise the ignorant and he will hate you. Unfortunately, it is the hate and lack of respoect that I mention before above. In fact I challenge you to read the Book of Proverbs, with the essential manner of living a good life. It might make you a better person.
Motti, you said “The sign surely was of a young woman 500 years before the Common Era”. What are you saying? What was significant about this young woman that she should be considered the prophetic sign, rather than the fact that she gave birth whilst still a virgin?
And please stop blowing that ‘wronged and persecuted’ trumpet. True Christians were, and still are persecuted by the same people who persecute Jews. Or didn’t you hear of those burned at the stake by the Catholic inquisition, or blown up by Islamic terrorists in Egypt, Iraq, Nigeria etc…
I have no respect for anyone, be they rabbi or priest, who deliberately misinterpret scripture, or pervert the facts of history (Cedar Olam) in order to deny that Jesus Christ is the Messiah. I will call them hypocrites, vipers and whitewashed tombs, just as he did.
Living a good life and trying to be a better person are all good intentions. But man’s righteousness is as filthy rags to God. God’s righteousness is given to us when we believe him. Just as God counted Abraham’s belief as righteousness, so too when we believe in Jesus Christ. And without the righteousness of Christ, nobody will see heaven.
Phil, You started the accusations and name calling which is the first sign of someone without real understanding and knowledge.
There really is no point in trying to discuss anything with you in a rational manner. My whole point is the the prophesy had nothing to do with Jesus. how much clearer do you want it? I appreciate tyhat you are brainwashed , and that some of your best friends are Jews.
Re your 3rd paragraph, you obviously have no self respect as it is Christianity that has distorted the original bible to make something out of it, which then becomes untruthful. Just who are you to so easily dismiss the teachings of learned Rabbis and commentators, including Christians?
Again, you show your real face again as a true (?) Christian by easily dismissing the wronged and persecuted trumpet. you should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself. most of my mother’s family in the Netherlands were wiped out, as was my paternal granfather’s family in Poland.. The road to the Holocaust is but a short journey from Martin Luther and the Vatican. you obviously would as a good Christian just forgive them. how easy when it does not happen to you. I really believe you are just a nut short of a Nazi the way you express yourself. No doubt, you are also a holocaust denier to write what you did.
You had better start thanking your Jesus belief. Without the Jews, you and your ilk would still be practising paganism. By the standard of your written words, I believe you are. Obviously. according to the book of Proverbs, proven by your statement referring to the Holocaust and 2000 years of Christian persecution,I made a mistake in attempting to educate you. Therefore, this will be my last reponse to you. I have tried answer you and all that is returned is idiotic rhetoric.
Dear Motti.
Shalom.
Since there is only one God who can save, and He is God of the Hebrews (Elohim), you must have a little bit compassion on us gentiles who feel He has saved us too.
We who are not Jewish, but who have been grafted into he House of Israel.
Even your Bible (The Torah and Tannakh) demands blood offerings for man to be saved. Your forefathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob had blood to offer for the forgiveness for their sins.
After the destruction of the Temple in 70. A.D: Can you please explain to me what kind of blood you have to offer for the forgiveness of your sins?
Well Motti, my intention was to get you to apply your own mind to who the prophet was speaking about, rather than have you quote some rabbi, whose views you accept, without being able to explain.
It seems to me, your rejection of Jesus Christ and all things Christian, is more due to a false view of the roll of true Christians in the Holocaust. May I remind you of the fact that many Christians gave their lives to save Jews from that horror.
There are over 100 million Christians suffering persecution in the world today. Accurate figures are difficult to come by because modern day Nazis have learned not to keep records, but it is estimated that the number of Christians killed for their faith during the last 50 years runs into many millions, mostly under communist and Islamist persecution.
Instead of accusing true Christians of being your persecutors maybe you should try looking at why many were willing to risk all for people who still attack them on the streets of Israel for nothing more terrible than trying to share their faith with them.
Shalom
Dear Ivar Shalom L’kha,
Of course i have compassion for gentiles who show decency and practise that withour deviance. I very much appreciate that you are one who practices what he preaches.
I was asked by a very good Evangelical type Christian friend of mine Whenever ther American pastor would arrive here, he would always ask my friend to invite me to the services. From within the congregation, I faced not hostility but friendship. They all knew that I am a self respecting Jew. Very often my friend would come to my house to ask questions relating to the Hebrew?Scriptures ie the Tanakh. I would read the Hebrew to him, explain the translation and also show him the commentaries, as explained earlier, by Rabbis, Christian Hebraists,etc. He always appreciated my help, which he always accepted in the manner it was given. That is a shared love of my history. for that is exactly what it is. An ancient history of my people, warts and all.
My friend asked me, as a Cohen (my mother’s maiden name and my father’s is Cohen) descended from Aaron, if I was from the priestly lineage. I explained yes, insofar as I know. He asked me whether I bless the congregation in synagogue and I affirmed this. He trhen asked me to offer the Cohen or prietly blessing to his congregation. I suggested that if his congregation would like me to do so, than I will be please to do so. He asked, they confirmed and I was delighted to bless his congregation in Hebrew and ranslated into English. He asked me to wear my kippah and tallit, which I did.
The Tanakh (which includes the Torah( the first 5 books of Moses) has demanded blood sacrifices of animals only. Not humans, that is absolutely forbidden. As I mentioned earlier, to save the life of one person is to save the whole of mankind. Since the fall of the tTemple, there is no blood sacrifice. Non blood and flesh have also been been offered to the almighty. We pray and fast over the Yom Kippur period for forgiveness of our sins and ask to be placed into the Book of Life. This period is just over a week after the Jewish New Tear (Rosh HaShanna)
incidentally, when in Haifa, Israel many years ago, I heard Norwegian being spoken and I began to speak with them. The small group were part of the Seamans hostel in Haifa and invited my wife and myself to a dinner on Friday evening (Erev Shabbat). we were very pleased to attend and I can tell you that they sang “Yerushalyim Shel Zahav in Herbew (Jerusalem of Gold). This song became an anthem just before the 6 Day WAr in 1967. so as you can see, I, at least, can offer explanations without just accusations.
I hope you receive the above in the manner it was given. I have been writing this on sunday and therefore wish you all a happy Shavua Tov, A good week.
A distinct seperation between us consists of our refusal to eat non Kosher food, which is to seperateJew from Gentile. Most of the Scriptures is actually based upon the health and cleanliness of body and soul. We believe if youl ike, that oheavan and hell is here on earth in our own life time. We do not share the Christian dogma of Hell. But please remember, I am just a person with a relative amount of knowledge, I don’t claim to know it all. I am not a rabbi, nor have I attended the Yeshiva. Certainly there are various Jewish web sites to ask Rabbis for interpretations etc.
As a matter of fact, the modern day Nazis kept records of trheir slaughter of millions ofJews and others. however, it was only the Jews (and Gypsies) who faced distinct annihilation from the face of the earth. The number and names of known Gentiles, living and dead, can be viewed on the yad VaShem website in Jerusalem, Israel Both high ranking Protestant and Catholic churches did nothing to help the Jews. Individual Christians certainly did, indeed some convents and nuns rescued and hid Jews. However, the number of those who did help (may their names be blessed) was tiny. hence the reason why the vast majority of European Jewry perished.
Laila tov ve L’hitra’ot Good night (it’s late) and au revoir