
Rev. Dallas Wilson Jr., vicar of John's Episcopal Chapel in Charleston, S.C., believes in the lies of John MacArthur: Christian slavery.
CHARLESTON, S.C. — When the Rev. Dallas Wilson Jr., a black Episcopal vicar on Charleston’s impoverished east side, first heard the concept of Christian slavery he couldn’t believe the message.
“That’s an affront,” he remembers thinking when he met theologian the Rev. John MacArthur about five years ago. “I said to him in my mind ‘Are you insane?’ Do you see this is a 300-pound black man you are standing before? How are you possibly going to tell me slavery is a beneficial system?”
But Wilson said that, after meeting MacArthur, he had an epiphany about his message: At the most basic level, Christians are really slaves to Christ.
On Tuesday in the city where the Civil War began and where tens of thousands of slaves were once offloaded from ships, about 150 pastors and others gather for a two-day conference on Christian slavery.
Wilson organized the gathering for various denominations and featuring talks by MacArthur, pastor of Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, Calif., and known for his radio program.
MacArthur says his message is not politically correct and difficult for many Christians to accept in a nation where individual achievements are highly valued. But he said it is based on scripture.
In his book “Slave,” MacArthur writes the Greek word doulos is generally translated as servant in the New Testament although in Greek it more properly means slave. He says the servant interpretation was used by Bible editors in 16th Century and later because of the stigma attached to slavery.
But being a servant is not the same thing, he said.
“A servant is someone who does a task but it says nothing about the relationship to the person he serves,” MacArthur said. “Doulos describes someone who is owned.”
That thinking, he said, has implications for the message of the New Testament for Christians in their beliefs about the death and resurrection of Christ.
“Christ has purchased us with his own blood,” he said. “He is the Lord and his followers are slaves.”
Source: Deseret News
My Comment:
Since we are getting closer and closer to the Coming of Christ, more of these “supposed believers” have popped up with their own version of the Word of God. Theologian Rev. John MacArthur view is that “The Lord’s follower’s are slaves,” and in my opinion is probably one of the most ridiculous statements I’ve ever heard. Rev. Dallas Wilson Jr. has agreed with MacArthur and has jumped on the “slavery view bandwagon.”
To both men I ask: how can you call yourself a believer in Christ, and then insult Our King’s Word by calling yourself a slave? The word “slave” has never had a good connotation, and use it when speaking about Christ Our Messiah is offensive and rude.
John also thinks that we have misunderstood the Word of Christ and says: ““Studying the New Testament I discovered a distortion of truth when it came to the word ‘doulos.’ The book Slave is about the hidden word that unlocks the believer’s identity. There had been a conspiracy to cover up a truth that is so essential to the New Testament that without it we misunderstand our relationship to Jesus Christ.”
The Word of God stands alone. We do not need John’s book slave to undertand God’s word. Jesus Christ made a huge sacrifice when he went on the cross and died for our sins. He loves us that much, and to make less of that huge sacrifice he did for us, is to make less of Jesus Christ. Our Lord considers us The Body of Christ.
1 Corinthians 12:
Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.
Do not believe those that blaspheme Christ. Always read the scriptures. If it isn’t in the Word of God, it simply isn’t true.
Romans 16:17
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.
Written by Gloria


I am a black woman and have no problem being a slave to Christ. I know my master loves me and treats this slave with kindness. I would never wish to be sold to another, I must remain with my master. You deny you are a slave to Christ? I advise you to examine yourself to see if you are in the faith.
Dear Jackyeowe.
Shalom, and welcome to this site.
Paul speaks to the physical slaves, tells them not to be concerned, and opt for freedom. What did he mean?
He explains that they have already been set free in a spiritual sense, from spiritual slavery. Such souls have been set free, and are destined for the Kingdom of Heaven.
Ephesians 6:5-6.
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart.
Amen my Sister! i was once a slave to sin but my Mercy and Amazing Grace i have a New Master my LORD and Saviour Yeshua Jesus and so do you “Praise The LORD!!!”
Jackeowe,
John MacArthur is a liar, and a false teacher. Upon his many false teachings is this “slave,” book.
John says: ““Studying the New Testament I discovered a distortion of truth when it came to the word ‘doulos.’ The book Slave is about the hidden word that unlocks the believer’s identity. There had been a conspiracy to cover up a truth that is so essential to the New Testament that without it we misunderstand our relationship to Jesus Christ.”
He is saying that without his book, that we have misunderstood Jesus Christ. He is adding to the Word of God without taking the Word of God As is.
well put jakyeowe
There is a strong possibility that you don’t understand the word “slave.” The Greek word, “doulos,” is used 128 times in the New Testament. In the BDAG, “doulos” is defined as “male slave as an entity in a socioeconomic context, slave (servant); one who is solely committed to another, slave.” The stigma comes from the abuse of the word. I don’t want to turn this into a dissertation so I would suggest that you heed 2 Tim. 2:15, “be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.”
Carl,
There is a strong possiblity that I am right, when it comes to John MacArthur.
Slave word aside, his slave book (if you read it) nowhere in the book does it mention Jesus dying for our sins, His resurrection or faith/believing in Christ at all.
Gloria,
You casually refer to John MacArthur as John. Are you a personal acquaintance of his? if not may I suggest that you refer to him as Pastor MacArthur, or Dr. MacArthur or Mr. MacArthur. John is my pastor and I personally know him, and it amazes me that you have wrongly judged this just and godly man, whose only interest in life is to glorify God. It seems you went about reading his book with a bias against him that perhaps skewed your understanding of it’s content.
The Bible says we are slaves to righteousness, and we are told to be slaves to God, and slaves to Jesus. The Bible also says we are slaves to whatever has mastered us. And we are also told from the Word of God that we are more than just slaves.
Did you miss all the scriptures explaining about being a slave?
Victoria,
This article is abot JOHN MACARTHUR and HIS LIES. It is about his statement: that we need his book Slave to understand the Word of God.
You and I both know that the Word of God stands alone.
More on believers being slaves…
Jesus tells us parables where we can compare ourselves to slaves.
And we are told “whoever wishes to be first among you shall be slave of all.”
Dear Victoria.
Shalom.
Jesus does not tell us to to be physical slaves. To be slave of His righteousness is something radically different.
Ivar,
If we serve others…we use our physical bodies for service.
And apostle Paul says about his physical body— “No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.”
Dear Victoria
Shalom.
This message can also be misunderstood, if we quote half of a verse, or parts of it, in a bid to make it fit it into certain doctrines.
1 Corinthians 9:25-27
Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.
(end of scriptures)
Paul is not a self hitter, a man who harm his own body. He speaks about competing in games. As sportsmen. A man that was shipwrecked and traveled 12.000 kilometers, surely “strike a blow” to his own body, and made it a slave of what Jesus had put in His heart.
Ivar said:
“This message can also be misunderstood, if we quote half of a verse, or parts of it, in a bid to make it fit it into certain doctrines.”
I go by the Word of God, and the Word of God’s doctrines.
Here are more scriptures to help you understand that even our physical bodies are slaves to God.
Romans 6:13 Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness.
Romans 6:19 I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness.
Romans 12:1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God–this is your spiritual act of worship.
Ivar said:
“Paul is not a self hitter, a man who harm his own body.”
Apostle Paul says he beats his body. You say he doesn’t. I will believe Paul and not you.
Dear Victoria.
Shalom.
This debate is if we are physical slaves of Jesus, or not.
Romans 6:13 Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness.
(end of scripture).
“Instruments of righteousness” is not meant to be a detention camp, or a physical chain of slavery. I am a “slave of Christ”, in the sense that I will walk on Earth as Jesus did. He was not detained, or in physical slavery, but walked from village to village, proclaiming the Kingdom of God.
Are you doing so?
Ivar said:
“Jesus does not tell us to to be physical slaves. To be slave of His righteousness is something radically different.”
You are so wrong in what you say here. I am compelled to post this scripture again. Read for yourself what we are to do with the parts of our body—”so now offer them in slavery to righteousness…”
Did you see that? Offer the parts of our body to “slavery” to righteousness.
Romans 6:19
I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness.
Ivar said:
“This debate is if we are physical slaves of Jesus, or not.”
I am a slave to Jesus in all ways, and that goes for physical too.
Dear Victoria.
Shalom.
Are you physically in chains to Him?
Ivar said:
“Are you physically in chains to Him?”
Why do you say such things? Do you think Jesus would chain believers?
Victoria
Shalom.
I guess the answer is “no”. You are not physically chained to Jesus. So you are not a “physical slave” in the sense of being detained. That we can not use our bodies for sinful activities, means there is a spiritual control over our bodies, that comes with obedience to the Holy Spirit.
Ivar said:
“I guess the answer is “no”. You are not physically chained to Jesus. So you are not a “physical slave” in the sense of being detained. That we can not use our bodies for sinful activities, means there is a spiritual control over our bodies, that comes with obedience to the Holy Spirit.”
My Master doesn’t chain me. I am physically and spiritually a slave to Jesus. You are fighting against what the Bible says.
So, Ivar, is only your spirit God’s, or is your body God’s too?
Did God just purchase part of you or all of you?
Don’t lean on your own understanding. Believe what the Word says.
For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s. 1 Corinthians 6:20.
Dear Victoria.
Shalom.
Your question:
So, Ivar, is only your spirit God’s, or is your body God’s too?
My answer:
All of it.
Your question:
Did God just purchase part of you or all of you?
My answer:
All.
Are you satisfied with my answers?
Victoria,
You cannot take verses without reading before and after. I believe we’ve discussed this elsewhere before.
This debate is about “slaves” the word, and about John MacArthur’s lies.
Do you agree with John MacArthur that we need his book to understand the Word of God?
Do you agree with John when he did not mention the huge sacrifice Christ made on the cross?
Those are just some of the lies John has spoken.
Gloria said:
“You cannot take verses without reading before and after. I believe we’ve discussed this elsewhere before.”
You need to stop falsely judging and accusing me of things that are not true. You need to stop attacking the person when you feel you are losing the debate. You need to humble yourself. That you would use for an argument that I haven’t read the scriptures before and after is beyond me.
Gloria said:
“This debate is about “slaves” the word, and about John MacArthur’s lies.”
The debate is about whether we are slaves to God, and whether we are slaves to God physically and spiritually. The answer to all those is “yes.” You have been given many scriptures showing you this.
Gloria said:
“Do you agree with John MacArthur that we need his book to understand the Word of God?”
I do not follow John MacArthur. And asking me if we need his book to understand the Word of God is irrelevant. Some people might need to learn we are slaves to God. We are slaves to God and Jesus…and more.
Gloria said:
“Do you agree with John when he did not mention the huge sacrifice Christ made on the cross?”
Do you believe that John MacArthur does not teach anywhere that Jesus died for us? I read some of his article, and he quotes scripture saying we are bought by the blood of Jesus.
Gloria said:
“Those are just some of the lies John has spoken.”
So far, you have not shown any lies he has spoken. I do not agree with every thing MacArthur teaches, but again, here you have not shown lies.
Dear Victoria.
Sabbath Shalom.
The word “slaves” is found 77 times in the Bible (NIV).
In none of the old Testament examples, the word “slave” has a positive meaning.
In the letters of Paul and Peter, and only in them, the word “slave” is linked to a positive word: Righteousness.
Romans 6:18
You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
These two words together will express something very different than “slavery”.
Romans 6:22
But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.
Paul also talks about “salves” in the negative sense, and I am sure you do not want to be this kind of “slave”.
Galatians 2:4
This matter arose because some false believers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves.
So rejoice. To be “a slave of God”, is also very much to be his best friend. That is something substantially different than “slavery” in the physical sense.
The difference between light and darkness in our relationship with “Christ” becomes pretty obvious in this kind of debate. Either you do understand this, or you do not.
Dear Victoria.
1 Peter 2:16
Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God’s slaves.
Can we live as free people, and still be slaves? This seems like a contradiction, but is not. Peter exposes Mac Arthur. He has missed the mark.
Victoria,
Your Comment: You need to stop falsely judging and accusing me of things that are not true. You need to stop attacking the person when you feel you are losing the debate. You need to humble yourself. That you would use for an argument that I haven’t read the scriptures before and after is beyond me.
My Comment: Where is it that I’ve “attacked” you or any other person? Please show me. I’ve must have missed it. Where is it that I’ve falsely judged you? By pointing out that you cannot take a bible verse out of context, which is true, you consider that falsing judging you? And yes, you do take a bible verse, out of context.
You tell me to be humble? I have no problem admiting when I’m wrong. Do you? In the case of John MacArthur I’m not.
Your Comment: The debate is about whether we are slaves to God, and whether we are slaves to God physically and spiritually. The answer to all those is “yes.” You have been given many scriptures showing you this.
My Comment: I guess you agree with John MacArthur’s teachings then. I don’t. The scriptures prove that Christ does not consider us in what “John MacArthur” thinks is slave. The scriptures prove that Christ considers us to be the body of Christ, and God’s Word should stand alone, and not on John MacArthur or yours.
Your Comment: I do not follow John MacArthur. And asking me if we need his book to understand the Word of God is irrelevant
My Comment: It’s not irrevelant, since we are discussing the word slave, and his book slave.
Your Comment: So far, you have not shown any lies he has spoken. I do not agree with every thing MacArthur teaches, but again, here you have not shown lies.
My Comment: Oh Victoria, how wrong you are. But I’ll guess you’ll never admit it.
Gloria said: “Where is it that I’ve “attacked” you or any other person? Please show me. I’ve must have missed it. Where is it that I’ve falsely judged you? By pointing out that you cannot take a bible verse out of context, which is true, you consider that falsing judging you? And yes, you do take a bible verse, out of context.”
The Word of God can be read and understood by one scripture, and a passage, and to the whole chapter.
You like saying “you can’t take bible verses out of context” because that is an attack you can say to someone when you are losing the debate.
Gloria said:
“You tell me to be humble? I have no problem admiting when I’m wrong. Do you? In the case of John MacArthur I’m not.”
Humble yourself and stop attacking me personally. It is a personal attack when you say to someone they do not read before and after verses. It is a personal attack when you say a person takes a scripture out of context. That is not happening with me, so stop. Discuss scriptures if you want, but don’t tell me things I’m doing when I’m not.
Gloria said: I guess you agree with John MacArthur’s teachings then. I don’t. The scriptures prove that Christ does not consider us in what “John MacArthur” thinks is slave. The scriptures prove that Christ considers us to be the body of Christ, and God’s Word should stand alone, and not on John MacArthur or yours.”
How rude. That’s another personal attack that is uncalled for. But you just can’t see it.
Gloria said: “It’s not irrevelant, since we are discussing the word slave, and his book slave.”
No, it’s not relevant. I’m talking about the Word of God, and not whether or not someone should by John MacArthur’s book.
Gloria said: “Oh Victoria, how wrong you are. But I’ll guess you’ll never admit it.”
Gloria, are you a slave to God and Jesus or not? Were you not bought by his blood? Are you, body and spirit bought by God? Now let’s see if you can admit the truth, of course if you are not these things…then that says a lot about you.
Dear Victoria.
Shalom.
To debate with someone who gets personally offended by any sentence that questions you, is very, very difficult.
When I debate with you, this Bible verse comes to my mind:
John 5:38-40
You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
(end of scripture)
If you are sure Victoria, that you have surrendered to Jesus and been born again from above, than what is all this fuzz about?
Victoria,
Your Comment: Humble yourself and stop attacking me personally.
My Comment: Again no one is attacking you. You have to learn to be able to debate without feeling as if you’re attacked. If not, then you are always going to be defensive when someone does not agree with what your saying.
Your Comment: You like saying “you can’t take bible verses out of context” because that is an attack you can say to someone when you are losing the debate.
My Comment: What debate have I lost? Is debating a contest? Or is debating on this blog a way of discussing the Word of God? I hope you feel it’s the last one, and not feel like you have to “win” any debate.
Your comment: I’m talking about the Word of God, and not whether or not someone should by John MacArthur’s book.
My comment: We are discussing the Word of God. That’s the most important. And you stated that I have not proven anything about John MacArthur. And that’s when I replied his lies are in his book and his statement of the word slave.
Your Comment: Gloria, are you a slave to God and Jesus or not? Were you not bought by his blood? Are you, body and spirit bought by God? Now let’s see if you can admit the truth, of course if you are not these things…then that says a lot about you.
My Comment: Oh Victoria, how you love to ask and not answer anything. I have learned from debating with you Victoria, that what the Holy Word of God really means sometimes differs from what you think it means. Let us learn from Christ, and stop being so defensive.
You can debate without feeling attacked.
John MacArthur is a liar. Some of his beliefs are not believing in the healing power of Christ. Look further into the subject of our discussion Victoria. You will see that John is full of lies.
Ivar said:
“To debate with someone who gets personally offended by any sentence that questions you, is very, very difficult.”
No, Ivar, to debate with someone who stops the debate and begins personal attacks—that is very difficult.
Ivar said:
“When I debate with you, this Bible verse comes to my mind:
John 5:38-40
You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
(end of scripture)
If you are sure Victoria, that you have surrendered to Jesus and been born again from above, than what is all this fuzz about?”
And this is another personal attack. Why would that Bible verse come to your mind about me? I have come to Jesus, and Jesus saved me. You try to use the words of God against me. Kind of like how Satan tried to use the word of God when he spoke to Jesus in the desert.
You should be more careful how you talk to a child of God.
Dear Victoria.
Shalom.
You have made the impossible possible. How is it possible to get offended by this question:
If you are sure Victoria, that you have surrendered to Jesus and been born again from above, than what is all this fuzz about?”
This is a circle debate, completely useless. We have been her before, Victoria. Do you love being “insulted”, since you keep on coming back from your self imposed exiles?
My Comment: Gloria, are you a slave to God and Jesus or not? Were you not bought by his blood? Are you, body and spirit bought by God? Now let’s see if you can admit the truth, of course if you are not these things…then that says a lot about you.
Gloria said: Oh Victoria, how you love to ask and not answer anything. I have learned from debating with you Victoria, that what the Holy Word of God really means sometimes differs from what you think it means. Let us learn from Christ, and stop being so defensive.
My Comment: I guess you can’t say it. I will say it easily. I am a slave to God and Jesus Christ. I was purchased with his blood.
Gloria said: John MacArthur is a liar. Some of his beliefs are not believing in the healing power of Christ. Look further into the subject of our discussion Victoria. You will see that John is full of lies.
My Comment: It is not true that Jesus does not heal anymore. If John MacArthur said that, then he is in error. But this debate is whether we are slaves to Jesus or not.
Victoria,
Your Comment: My Comment: I guess you can’t say it. I will say it easily. I am a slave to God and Jesus Christ. I was purchased with his blood.
My Comment: Remember the bible is according to Jesus Christ not according to Victoria.
Example: Your said: Jesus tells us parables where we can compare ourselves to slaves.
And we are told “whoever wishes to be first among you shall be slave of all.”
But Christ Word on 1 Corinthians 9:25-27 is not “physical” slave like you mean and like this sinful world would take it to mean, another example John MacArthur.
Physical and Spirtual according to “the word” of John MacArthur is wrong.
Again before you back John MacArthur, do some research.
Ivar said:You have made the impossible possible. How is it possible to get offended by this question:
If you are sure Victoria, that you have surrendered to Jesus and been born again from above, than what is all this fuzz about?”
This is a circle debate, completely useless. We have been her before, Victoria. Do you love being “insulted”, since you keep on coming back from your self imposed exiles?”
Ugh, you just don’t stop. If you want to talk more about questioning if I’m a Christian or not, even after I have said I was many times…then I will stop coming here and ignore your special debate tactics.
But if you want to talk more about being a slave to the Lord, then stay focused on scriptures, and not what you think of me personally. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
Dearest Victoria, my sister.
Shalom.
You wrote:
If you want to talk more about questioning if I’m a Christian or not…
My reply:
I have not question you, if you are a Christian or not. That is your business. If you are sure that Jesus will take you to Heaven if you die 5 minutes from now, who am I to question you?
I just find it difficult to debate, with someone who gets offended so easily, and read questions and disagreements as if they were some kind of personal attacks.
Gloria said: “Remember the bible is according to Jesus Christ not according to Victoria.
Example: Your said: Jesus tells us parables where we can compare ourselves to slaves.
And we are told “whoever wishes to be first among you shall be slave of all.””
You judged falsely, Gloria. Jesus does tell us parables where we can compare ourselves to slaves/servants. See this passage—
“For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. “And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey… “After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them. “So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, ‘Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.’ “His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’ “He also who had received two talents came and said, ‘Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.’ “His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’ “Then he who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. ‘And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.’ “But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. ‘So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. (Matthew 25:14-15, 19-27)
And Jesus does tell us to be slaves. Read this scripture—
“Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you shall be your servant. “And whoever of you desires to be first shall be slave of all. “For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.” (Mark 10:43-45)
I believe me and you have debated this enough Victoria.
You will continue to posts what you think the Word of Christ means, and it will get us no where. I can admit when I’m wrong, and have apologized in the past, when I have thought something means one thing and it turns out I was wrong.
In this case, I believe you are wrong. Like another poster said, we are the sons and daughters of Christ.
You and I are spinning around in circles.
So God Bless you, and I’ll move on.
Gloria
Gloria,
You said “Remember the bible is according to Jesus Christ not according to Victoria.”
And I have shown you that you were wrong in saying that—I gave scripture according to the Word of God.
You should apologize to me, if for anything, then for that. But I’m not waiting for one. And there is nothing wrong with my proving I spoke according to the Word of God, no matter if we debated long enough or not.
Dear Victoria.
Shalom.
Jesus the Messiah is the Word of God. The Word who came in flesh. Everything from A to Z in the Bible is from Jesus. Father, Son and Holy Spirit is One God. Always in agreement.
Ivar,
I know the Old Testament to the New Testament is the Word of God. You don’t understand what the discussion with Gloria and I was about. Gloria picked out something I said in a post, and then insinuated it was not biblical. I shown Gloria that she was wrong, and then gave her scriptures.
Dear Victoria.
Shalom.
I know what this “slave” debate is all about. And Gloria and I disagree with you. Very simple. To try to bridge the gap, seems to be an impossible task. So lets move on. Lets follow Jesus where He wants us to go with Him.
Ivar,
Can I defend myself from falseness? Are you and Gloria going to now drag these posts on with comments to me about moving on? If you really wanted to move on, then why do you both comment to tell me not to keep going on? You couldn’t just let me post and not post to tell me to stop?
Maybe I wanted to say more about it? Maybe I wanted to defend myself and the truth.
Did you not just post this in the other thread?—
Dear All readers.
You are all free people. No one will be forced or tempted to visit this blog.
If we can not have a fair and fee dialogue about faith, and understanding of the scriptures, we are ruled by a spirit that wants to keep us in bondage and slavery.
Are you trying to stop me from having a fair and free dialogue about faith? Don’t be a hypocrite.
Dear Victoria.
Shalom.
You are free to post anything, at anytime on this blog. You missed my point. And endless debate does not take us anywhere. In regards to the word “slave”, it might be time to agree that we disagree?
Victoria,
Your comment: I know the Old Testament to the New Testament is the Word of God. You don’t understand what the discussion with Gloria and I was about. Gloria picked out something I said in a post, and then insinuated it was not biblical. I shown Gloria that she was wrong, and then gave her scriptures.
My Comment: And who deemed you correct? Do you think your correct because you say it? I think some of your biblical views are incorrect, another example: the holy spirit. Just because you think it means something Victoria, doesn’t mean your always right. You need to learn that we all make mistakes, including you.
No, Ivar, it wasn’t time to agree to disagree. I was falsely accused of something, so I proved my case. And as for agreeing to disagree—I don’t agree to disagree. Wouldn’t that be what the those in the ecumenical camp do?
Dear Victoria.
Shalom.
You are free to debate as long as you desire. No issues.
Gloria said: And who deemed you correct? Do you think your correct because you say it? I think some of your biblical views are incorrect, another example: the holy spirit. Just because you think it means something Victoria, doesn’t mean your always right. You need to learn that we all make mistakes, including you.
Gloria, I could say the same thing to you. I can also ask you who deemed you correct. But I don’t personally attack people that way. Stop making your discussions about me personally. Stop being rude. Read everything you posted right here to me, and take it yourself.
Ivar,
As his slaves, we are bought or purchased with his blood. We have been freed from the slavery of sin in order that we may serve the Almighty God.
Also, how would you explain these verses if we are not “bought” as slaves to serve God?
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Eph. 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
1 Cor. 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.
1 Cor. 7:23 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men
2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
I love it, Nina Stone, excellent.
We are bought, purchased with his own blood.
I am all of God’s, through Jesus Christ, my body and spirit.
1 Cor. 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.
Nina,
Jesus Christ died for our sins, and yes his Word says that we are purchased with his blood. BUT IT IS NOT the same as John MacArthur’s beliefs. Not at all. John MacArthur tries to stand on his own two feet, and not stand on the Word of God.
His slave book is based on lies, does not mention Jesus Christ died for our sins, and to use the word “slave” in the same text as John MacArthur’s lies is INSULTING to the Word of God.
The Bible use many pictures to descibe the relationship between Christ and his believers, f.ex: brethren, bridegroom-bride, vine-branches, head-body, Master (Rabbi)-disciples AND also Lord-slave.
In every of these relations, it is a volunteer relationship. But in every way it is The Lord Jesus who takes the initiative, who calls, establish and gives lost sinners these great relationships with Him.
How great to be a brother of Jesus! How great to be a little part of His body.
How great to be a (volonteerly)slave for such a Lord! He bought me, he owns me, and He still loves me and want to keep me, forgive me and teach me, eventhough I often disappoint him, and disobey his orders.
As John MacArthur studybible says in note to 1. Cor.7,22: In the ways that truly count, no man is freer than a Christian. No bondage is as terrible as that of sin, from wich Christ fees the believer. Christ’s slave: Those who are not slaves, but fee in the social sense, are in the spiritual sense made slaves of Christ in salvation (Rom.6,22)
Gloria: I hope you see/understand this. Your article and statemenst and insults against Rev John MacArthur is seriously wrong. I hope you apologize.
Dear Arve.
Shalom, and welcome with a fresh comment.
You wrote:
Those who are not slaves, but free in the social sense, are in the spiritual sense made slaves of Christ in salvation (Rom.6,22).
My reply:
Exactly. And I am very sure that all born again believers will agree with you.
In regards to John Mac Arthur I have serious disagreements with his teachings. Like his false teachings that the gifts of the Holy Spirit ceased with the Apostolic age. Praying in tongues, etc. Let there be a debate on his teachings on this site, as Gloria has invited us to join. I know there is another article from her hand in the pipeline.
Dear Arve.
Shalom.
On the back of the book cover of Mac Arthur’s book “Slave” we can read:
“Centuries ago, English translators perpetrated a fraud in the New Testament, and it’s been purposely hidden and covered up ever since. Your own Bible is probably included in the cover-up!”
(end of book cover):
This surely amount to a “super revelation”, that has been given to Mac Arthur. I guess all of us have misunderstood, and are part takers of this conspiracy?
Arve,
I completely disagree with MacArthur and his teachings. The bible says in 1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Did you know that besides John’s book “slave” being filled with lies, and not even mentioning the sacrifice God made on the cross, did you know that John MacArthur says Jesus “It is not Biblical to believe that God is going to heal you.”
That is another lie, from the deceiver himself.
I suggest you Arve, research this John MacArthur fully before following his “brand” of words.
Here is a definition of the word slave from Webster’s,
1. A person who is wholly subject to the will of another; one who has no will of his own, but whose person and services are wholly under the control of another.
I like the word servant better than slave because “slave” also has some negative aspects to it, such as what happened in the African slave trade. There is another word that is used to descibe our relationship with Christ, “friend”, like Abraham.
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
I want to be His friend also.
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
We are many things in Christ.
Dear Dave1543.
Shalom.
You pinpointed the challenge of this debate: What is the meaning of the word “slave”? Is it the Southern American slavery version we feel the Messiah is leading us into? I guess a slave in Alabama was not invited to call his master for a “friend”?
We are not physically in chains with Jesus. By His blood He has set us free to follow Him. Many Christians do not even try to follow Him, anywhere.
Dave,
Thank you for this. I appreciate your comment, because it states that we are many things in Christ. And John MacArthur suggestion that he has some special “insight” to the Word of God with his book “slave” is wrong.
This guy is a false teacher, a complete liar. He also states that Christ cannot “heal.”
Guess what? I have witnessed Christ’s healing. and he can. God’s Word says Christ can heal.
So who is the liar? John MacArthur.
In doing even further research of John MacArthur he says this:
““When you give somebody the gospel, you are saying to them, ‘I would like to invite you to become a slave of Jesus Christ…give up your independence…give up your freedom, submit yourself to an alien will, abandon all your rights, be owned by, controlled by the Lord’. That’s really the gospel.”
As if John MacArthur’s comments aren’t disturbing enough he hads, “an alien will?” Where and I have to ask again, where does it say that in the Word of God?
Also he says: ” conspiracy to cover up a truth that is so essential to the New Testament”
Last I checked God’s Word is the complete truth.
I stand by my article 100%. Because the Word of God says: Romans 16:17-18 I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.
The apostle Peter called himself a bondservant of Jesus Christ in 2 Peter 1:1. And so did Paul in Romans 1:1 and Titus 1:1. And so did James in James 1:1, and Jude said this in Jude verse 1. Also, John in Revelation 1:1.
Philippians 2:5-8
5Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
8Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
“Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you shall be your servant. “And whoever of you desires to be first shall be slave of all. “For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.” (Mark 10:43-45)
Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—In the volume of the book it is written of Me—To do Your will, O God.’ (Hebrews 10:7)
Read about being a bond servant in the Old Testament:
“Now these are the judgments which you shall set before them: “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he shall serve six years; and in the seventh he shall go out free and pay nothing. “If he comes in by himself, he shall go out by himself; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. “If his master has given him a wife, and she has borne him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master’s, and he shall go out by himself. “But if the servant plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ “then his master shall bring him to the judges. He shall also bring him to the door, or to the doorpost, and his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him forever.” Exodus 21:1-6
Read how beautifully this explains a bond servant..
“But if the servant plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,”
Is this really a discussion??Christ is our master, we are not slaves to the whims of the flesh, we are now slaves to Christ and his Holy spririt. Paul said we are slaves to who are what we obey? I never thought John meant it in any negative way. I am also black. Why would a Christian have a problem with being called a slave to Christ??
Gabrielle,
The word slave and the book slave needs to be discussed, because John MacArthur teaches lies and his own spin of the Word of God.
You are black and I am hispanic. It does not matter what color you are. What matters is that this man “John MacArthur” has managed to deceive many with is ridiculous lies on the Holy Word of God.
God Bless.
Gloria
God doesn’t want anyone to be his slave, but rather sons and daughters. The scripture makes it clear in Genesis 1:26-27 that: 26Then God said, “Let us make human beings in our image, to be like us. They will reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, the livestock, all the wild animals on the earth, and the small animals that scurry along the ground.”
27So God created human beingsc in his own image.
In the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
Our father in heaven created us in his own image. Jesus even taught us to call him father when when we pray to him in Matthews 6:8-9 :. 8Don’t be like them, for your Father knows exactly what you need even before you ask him! 9Pray like this:
Our Father in heaven,
may your name be kept holy.
No one will want his son or daughter to be his or her slave. The term ”slave” use in the bible refers to ”submission” and just feel how wonderful it is to submit to your father.
We should devote ourselves reading the bible and ask the spirit to help us in interpretations. Some people use most of their quiet times reading bible commentary written by others. We should be very careful about that. You have the gift, so pray to let it get released. God bless you all for your love for God and for Christ. Amen
Nana,
I agree with your statements, especially: We should devote ourselves reading the bible and ask the spirit to help us in interpretations.
Jesus Christ Savior also warned us about false teachers, and that they are hidden wolves in sheep clothing. I believe John MacArthur is this. One of his many lies include that Christ cannot heal.
I believe as Christians the bible tells us to test the spirits whether they are from God. John deceives many, and I do pray that he repents and sees the error of his ways.
God Bless,
Gloria
I have listened to (Critically) John for years now, and I have never heard him say that Christ cannot heal… Please share proof of your claim… otherwise you owe your audience an apology…
D
Dear Daniel.
Shalom.
You wrote:
I have listened to (Critically) John for years now, and I have never heard him say that Christ cannot heal…
My reply:
As I have understood John Mac Arthur, he believes Jesus can heal. What He do not believe, is that Jesus gives a person the gift to Heal. He claims the personal gifts of the Holy Spirit ceased to exist with the Apostolic age. In my opinion this is wrong. The same gifts that were available in early Christianity, is available today.
To not acknowledge such gifts, will lead you to deny them, and in such a way cripple the body of Jesus on Earth. At best you get dry Christianity, and a lot of papal inspired one leader fellowships and Churches. Most of Evangelical Churches surely have “pastors” But where are the prophets and the apostles?
Nana Kwasi Kwabiah,
If you could buy someone…purchase someone, and then they belong to you and they are no longer their own—would you be right in calling them your servant, or synonym “slave”?
1 Corinthians 6:19-20 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.
To Everyone,
I apologize if I have been “harsh” in any of my comments. I will hopefully learn to “tone” my comments down. That was not my intention at all.
I still stand by my article fully, and my view of John MacArthur. If anyone feels that they have proof that I am wrong, please feel free to debate, and submit the proof, and I will admit.
But my stance on John MacArthur is not based on his “slave” book, and the word “slave.” Ivar has submitted a Bible Study on John MacArthur and I also have another article coming up.
God Bless,
Gloria
Healing was used to authenticate the message. Peter’s SHADOW was enough to heal people as he walked by. Similarly, a cloth that Paul had been in contact was enough. Yet already, that gift was disappearing. Timothy wasn’t healed, but was told to drink a little wine.
The purpose of the gift was to authenticate the message. If a person was able to walk into hospital after hospital, completely and permanently healing everyone inside, imagine how it would impact the perception of the Christian message.
There are a TON of false prophets that use healing to try to authenticate their message. A quick check would show that those healings are bogus. That’s clear again and again, yet people consistently fall for it because they want teachers to tell them what they want to hear. Rather than seeking Christ, glorifying him even through illness or death, they seek a God who will focus on their own needs.
This is the crux of the message of Slave. We are here for Christ, not the other way around. Devoted followers care more about Christ’s will than their own. If they live, well, to live is Christ. If they die, well, to die is gain. This life on Earth isn’t anything significant other than a forum where we appear as a mist, for a little time. During that time, we are here to bring glory to a magnificant God who has sacrificed himself for us even though we aren’t worthy of that.
Kev.
PS. The opinion that Dr. MacArthur doesn’t preach the gospel in line with scripture is just silly. You need to stop saying that, as you’re just undermining yourself. We can disagree over cessationism vs continualism, but throwing dirt on a Godly man doesn’t help anyone.
Victoria, as we are brothers and sisters in Christ, we do not need to be angry with each other, and as such, brothers and sisters do have some ”little issues” sometimes. I think your brothers and sisters have nothing bad against you. God bless you and should provide to you the everlasting joy in Jesus name.
To pinpoint on a certain word, such as, “slave” ( as J MacArthur has done) is to miss all the other the other benefits of knowing our Savior, Jesus Christ.
We are His sons and daughters, we are heirs to His inheritance, He is our friend, comforter, counselor; He is our High Priest. Even in Revelation when we all come together in the 1,000 year reign we will be priests and kings.
When Paul stated that he was a slave to Christ he meant it in a very positive way- he was not a “slave” anymore to the flesh (worldly view of the word “slave”) He was a slave to Christ, which is by the way freedom!
John MacArthur so over emphasizes the word “slave” that many can in error start to look at our relationship with Christ as bondage and not freedom. Knowing Christ is not bondage nor are we to look at our relationship with Him as such! We have access to the throne of God through Christ! We can freely come to Him and worship. Worldly “slaves” cannot do that and they cannot call Christ friend.
I am personally tired of all these “so-called” theologians and following them- I follow Christ and His Word and His Spirit lives within me. The more I submit to the Holy Spirit the more I have freedom- so too me being a slave to Christ means I have just received my freedom papers!!
Dear Faith.
Shalom.
You wrote:
I am personally tired of all these “so-called” theologians and following them- I follow Christ and His Word and His Spirit lives within me.
My reply:
I agree with you.
But let me underline, that I have a lot of Christian brothers in the Mac Arthur camp. My worries, are not based on the different understanding and use of the word “slave”. But rather, Mac Arthur’s claim that the personal gifts distributed by the Holy Spirit, ceased to exist with the first apostles.
This kind of view creates at its best “dry Christianity”, where Christians are not equipped properly for the spiritual battles they are called into by Jesus our Lord.
I would rather request Christians to follow the Bible, than the understanding Mac Arthur has gained by reading the scriptures.
Yes, I see what you are saying about the gifts. I use to be confused about them myself until I STUDIED the Word. I do believe in tongues if they can be interpreted, otherwise they are useless. I still believe there are prophets, as long as, they are truely receiving prophetic truth from God and are 100% correct; otherwise, they are charletans and only using it for their own gain. So, I see where John MacArthur may have had concern about the misuse of gifts, but he then put in his own wisdom. Many leaders in the Christian church do that.
The reason I brought up what I did is that I went to a Reformed, Lordship salvation church and saw the false teaching of Calvinism and Lordship salvation, so the word “slave” is something that I am familiar with and I saw legalism crop up from it. Now, do I believe that these are my brothers and sisters in Christ- yes. I saw their love for Christ, but what was lacking was the love that is generated by the Spirit. Hardly, ever did I hear about the Holy Spirit and His work in our lives and how we are to submit to Him so that He can transform us to the liking of Jesus Christ; I saw other things, like spiritual formation and more emphasis on the TULIP of Calvinism. So all I (well, what scripture says) can say is that when you allow a little it leavens the whole lump.
Yes, I agree it is VERY profitable to just stick to the Word then to stick to mans teachings.
The Lord bless
Faith
Also, another issue with the word “slave” is how it “could” be used to gain control over a congregation or individual. Let us say that a certain individual was not “toeing the line” or doing what the leadership of the church wanted. How much could one pastor or group of elders do to use this premise of “slave” to gain control?
The Catholic Church used/uses many terms to keep their congregants in line with their teachings- just saying.
I am extremely careful of wording, because alot is used to manipulate and invoke and….for propoganda of ones teaching or philosophy.
Gloria,
Have you spent anytime at all studying the word “DOULUS” ? Why do you not quote convenient passages? Even Jesus refereed to himself as our Kyrios (Master/Lord).
Heaven will judge you for your distortion or the truth, be it out of ignorance or out of malicious intent. You will be held accountable. I am an Christian who happens to be African-American. I know too well the pain of the term “Slave”, but I also know that all I was, all the pain I felt (and still feel), is refuse compared to the surpassing glory of GOD!
Shalom!
Dear Gloria,
Don,t spoil John MacArthur’s name. He didn’t tell Jesus cannot heal. In his many sermons he explained how Jesus healed people miraculously, instantly. According to Matthew 5:11 (Blessed are you when they ……say all kinds of evils against you falsely for My sake.) MacArthur is blessed one. Think about yourself. Don’t try to stand by your article and your view of John MacArthur. Don’t be a deceived deceiver. When you pray, humble yourself before God, Don’t preconceive in your mind. And ask God what is right and what is wrong. He will teach you everything. God bless you.
Amen, Julie!!!
Let’s keep Gloria in prayer. She is so obviously deceived…
Shalom,
Daniel
Dear Daniel
Shalom.
Let me remind you what Julia wrote:
Dear Gloria,
Don,t spoil John MacArthur’s name. He didn’t tell Jesus cannot heal. In his many sermons he explained how Jesus healed people miraculously.
My reply:
In the present article, Gloria do not write that Mac Artur claim that Jesus can not heal. So your comments do not hit the mark.
There is no Christian who claim that Jesus can not heal. The question is if Jesus distribute personal gifts to heal. Like Peter did: – Silver and gold I have none, but what I have, I give you. In the name of Jesus, walk.
I believe, and Gloria believe, that the Holy Spirit still equip Christians with the gift of healing. I you do not believe this, you have some explanation to do: When did the Holy Spirit change His mind?
There are 4 reasons to division 1)False Christology 2) Preaching Another Gospel 3) unrepentant immorality 4) Redefining the Scriptures. These are the 4 reasons to stay away from Ecumenicalism, Rick Waren, the New Apostolic Movement, Replacement Theology, Dominion Theology. John MacArthur is a good brother he has exposed much. Yes he is a cessationistand and that is wrong BUT he is not one of the 4 reasons to divide from this brother. Go after the bigies!!! John MacArthur IS NOT a false Teacher “So get over it!” Ivar and Gloria
Dear Gloria J.
Shalom.
You write:
John MacArthur IS NOT a false Teacher “So get over it!” Ivar and Gloria
My comment:
We have earlier been through some rounds on John Mac Arthur. I have a lot of Christian friends who have high regards for this preacher, and author of multiple books. I do not agree with him in regards to personal gifts of the Holy spirit.
This is not a minor doctrinal disagreement. So I feel it is wise that people who disagree on the validity of personal gifts of the Holy Spirit, gathers in different Churches and fellowships. If not, there will be division and chaos.
This is true. If you have a group of believers and some of them have tongues but there are believers who think it is fake and they don’t believe them, where is the unity? If someone lays hands on another to be healed and others don’t believe, there is division and chaos as Ivar says. We must be of one heart and mind.
That doesn’t mean that I consider those who do not accept spiritual gifts as unbelievers, not a all. But there are some definite divisional issues here.
Peace in the Lord.
ivarfjeld,
Sorry, but I do not understand what you are saying… Please proof-read and re-send.
Thank you.
Some people believe that all gifts of the Holy Spirit (speaking in tongues, healing etc.) have stopped with the apostles. I do not believe this. There is healing in my own life and I have the gift of tongues ( and I didn’t ask for it or want it) but for whatever reason I have it. If all gifts stopped with the apostles how are there people healing in His name and speaking in tongues. His church lives on and we are still His hands and feet until the last day. It didn’t stop with the apostles. His mercy continues and He continues to pour out his gifts. Although, one must be able to discern spirits because there are many counterfeits.
Have you study the bible extensively? Have studied the book of acts and 1 Cor 12-14, read commentaries, and done a Greek word study on “Glossolalia” ?
I bet not…
Daniel,
Am I a biblical scholar? No. Have I read about Glossolalia? Yes. And there are various thoughts on the topic. I’m not here to argue with you and I hope you’re not here to say how right you are.
I’m not imagining I have tongues. If you want to believe it doesn’t exist go for it.
Really? Do you practice it in public?
Like at the grocery store? Uh, no. When I am in prayer.
In church though?
no. Quietly to myself.
Quietly? How do you accomplish that?
Accomplish what?
Daniel,
Do you quietly talk to God in the morning and pray? That’s what I’m doing. Since you may not know anyone with this gift and probably haven’t heard it out loud, the idea is foreign to you.
Peace,
Sue
How do you accomplish speaking tongues quietly in church and to yourself?
I speak it to God at home in private and in prayer. Tongues is not just a language for communication with foreigners. It is a spiritual language of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit knows what to pray.
So you have no control over tongues? They control you?
Daniel. I’m done with this conversation. Tongues does not “control” me . There are people with Kundillini false tongues and there are believers with real tongues.
There is absolutly no reason to separate from a brother that is In Christ that does not believe in the Gifts. This all happened at the Council of Calcedon 451 AD. After Calcedon, however , the Holy Spirit was sl\helved. Jesus was no longer seen to have performed HIS miracles by the power of the Spirit, and the Holy Spirit thereby became neglected member of the Godhead. His role and ministry were phased out. Because Protestantism follows Calcedon just as Catholicism does, they have a similar underlying root in this aspect. Because Satan has always got his foot in the door of something that is of G-D, like the Gifts…then what happened and is happening “Charismania!” Now his (Satan)whole body is in the Churches (Ecumenicalism!) The result of Calcedon, however, was a widespred understatement of the humanity of Yeshua Jesus, leading naturally to the preceived need for another Mediator in order to reach G-D: Ave Maria! Do i need signs NO i need the ONLY Mediator between G-D and man Christ Yeshua! If the Gifts of The Holy Spirit has ceased then i don’t need Faith and Hope…how stupid is it to. believe that i don’t need Faith and Hope “REAL STUPID!” Oh i want to add this, if someone is truly Born Again and they do not believe in the Gifts of The Holy Spirit then they will be the first to be Raptured for the DEAD in Christ shall rise first. i do hope you understand what i’m saying. This was to wake up the cessationist only, nothing more. If the true and faithful Protestant new as much as the true and faithful Baptist, Christ would have a powerful Church for HIM! Satan HATES true believers (jew and gentile) don’t EVER forget that!Amen
Dear Gloria J.
Shalom.
You do not have to give a long lecture on theology and Church history, to convince us. The debate between Sue and Daniel, express the division. Pentecostal who believe in the gifts of tongues and the people in Mac Artur’s camp who do not believe in such gifts, in fact: In no personal gifts, should not be in the same Church.
If you believe that personal gifts of the Holy spirit is from the devil, “Houston, we have a problem”.
I am not separating from a brother in Christ for not believing I have the gift of tongues. But conversation comes to a standstill when it is assumed that tongues “controls” me. He is envisioning people from feeling-based-false-tongue groups. That is not me. There is no sense going back and forth when one side is assuming the other side is deceived by evil.
Gloria, Et Al
Let’s make one thing perfectly (crystal) clear. I am not in John MacArthur’s camp. I find such classification to be an insult. If I am in anyone’s camp, it is Camp Christ.
As Paul discussed in 1 Cor., when the people of Corinth formed sects around some of the Apostles, causing divisions in the body (some for Paul, some for Apollos, and some for Peter), this is not godly. Please know and be confident on the fact that, I am for Christ and Christ alone.
The comment that insinuating that I am in MacArthur’s camp, is rude and ungodly. There is but one Shepherd, Yashua Ha Massiach (Jesus the Anointed One). None of these men gave themselves for me or shed their blood for me- that I may be free from evil, darkness, and the wrath of God (Galatians 1:4-5). Christ alone did this. Therefore, He alone has my allegiance. I respect Paul, Peter, Apollos, and other vessels of God so far as their theology is sound and submitted to the authority of Christ- His word and work. Otherwise, let them be accursed, and Paul would agree with me (Gal 1:8-10)
In my years of being acquainted with John’s ministry I have found him to be doctrinally sound and theological unashamed. Few teach expositorily as John does. While I can honestly say, he and I have disagreements, he is not a liar nor is he a heretic. There a few that I can say I respect and John is among them. The others are Ravi Zacharias, RC Sproul, Chuck Swindoll, John Piper… these men are learned and do (by the grace and call of God) study to show themselves approved. We are in the same camp (Christ’s camp) so far as they surrender to the whole counsel of God and not a few verse disloged from its original context as Gloria does…
B’Yahoshua Messiach,
Daniel
Daniel.
Shalom.
Now you are exposing another interesting reaction. You feel personally attacked. Who did attack you? Is it the spirit within you who feels attacked?
If so: You need deliverance.
No “Spirit” within feels attacked, just a point clarification. Bless you… and Shalom!
Dear Daniel.
Shalom, and love in Yeshua.
Remember: Bad company, corrupts good character. You must take a deeper look into the Mac Arthur camp. There are many good Christians there. They struggle to find their personal gifts of the Holy Spirit. The gifts that Jesus wants to give them, identified by shepherds who acknowledge that this is a VIP task of the Church.
Dear Daniel.
Shalom.
You do not only promote John Mac Artur. You also promote John Piper. Piper is a teacher of replacement theology, and a committed antisemite.
http://ivarfjeld.wordpress.com/2010/12/20/john-piper-preach-like-hitler-jews-are-enemies-of-god/
A side note, also, is that John Piper has been continually willing to associate with Rick Warren (who has repeatedly been soft selling the Gospel).
I tend to shy away from any popular teachers these days- do not need them- got the Holy Spirit!!
Christians- we have the Holy Spirit to guide us to the truth. We have sorely been lacking in allowing the Holy Spirit to take control. We are not willing to submit to Him and thus we quench the Holy Spirit.
The term “Slave of Christ” means we should be willful servants of Christ teachings. Your will equals His will. Slave, here, does not mean you are supposed to be forced in anyway. It also allows the Holy Spirit to conform your will to Christ’s will.
But remember God gave us freewill. We must do this by submitting to His grace and allow it to work in our lives. We have to participate.
I also think it should be interpreted to mean that we’re to be slaves to love. Then our “enslavement” is freely chosen – we’ve come to learn the value of love and of He who is love.
Dear Thomas More
Shalom
You wrote:
The term “Slave of Christ” means we should be willful servants of Christ teachings.
My reply:
There are many ways of explaining who a man is, and how he is expected by Jesus to be. Jesus does not force anyone to walk in His likeness. We are not spiritual puppets, but do have a free will. If we were puppets, any lost soul is a crime, because Jesus did not force him or her to follow Him.
You are right ivarfjeld:
.Romans 6:18
And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
Romans 6:22
But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.
This verse is very interesting (Freedman and slave combined):
1 Corinthians 7:22
For he who is called in the Lord while a slave is the Lord’s freedman. Likewise he who is called while free is Christ’s slave.
Now we look at Galations- We are actually called sons (daughters would also apply) and heirs:
Galatians 4:7
Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
In John Christ calls us His friend:
John 15:15
No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you.
All these terms of relationships are important because they are all good and wonderfully created by God and they ALL apply to us as believers and our relationship to Christ.
I am glad I am a servant, slave, friend, daughter/child, heir to inheritance, bride of Christ, etc…
I personally believe this with John MacArthur that this “Slave” is a cherry pickin’ issue and can cause divisiveness within the body.